There are two ways that servers on here can accept new members:
-Sign-ups where you join instantly
-Sign-ups where the server moderator has to manually approve your membership
Approval sign-ups make moderation much more effective, but some people seem to find them more difficult.
If you are someone who finds approval sign-ups more difficult, could you explain the main thing putting you off?
(By the way, this isn't meant to be judgmental, just want to find out what the main barriers are! ๐
)
@FediTips@social.growyourown.services Feeling like I needed to prove myself to get into a not โbadโ situation was a bit difficult (fear of rejection).
An issue that was a big blocker for me was having to waitโnot only because of the impatience, but also because I forgot to lookout for the email in my inbox. I believe I missed my approval for monthsโthatโs almost an abandoned account before it was even used.
I really appreciate this idea of a probationary account by @watchfulcitizen@goingdark.social.
https://goingdark.social/@watchfulcitizen/115508727378149242
@FediTips@social.growyourown.services Iโd say the approval flow is just bad UX all around.
Itโs not about users being lazy or entitled. The experience breaks momentum.
Youโve just discovered something new, youโre curious, you want to join, and suddenly youโre being asked to write a little essay for strangers. You donโt even know what kind of community it is yet or what they expect from you. Then you hit submit and the whole thing goes quiet. I donโt hate moderation, it's the uncertainty.
For new users I think itโs even worse.
Theyโve already had to pick a random server from a bunch of names that make no sense, read a page of rules that assume they already understand federation, and then theyโre told to justify why they want to join it.
Thatโs a huge ask for someone still trying to figure out what Mastodon even is. Itโs the same reason UX study's shows steep drop-offs with multi-step forms and unclear feedback. Users donโt finish what they donโt understand, and they donโt wait when they donโt know how long the wait is.
The design makes them feel like outsiders before theyโve even walked in the door. IMO I think a trial period would be a much better middle ground.
I opened a feature request about this exact issue yesterday that I think would solve the issues.
https://github.com/mastodon/mastodon/issues/36747
@FediTips@social.growyourown.services Out of curiosity, in the sign up process is there a way to split the difference where registrations are manually reviewed, but the "write a bit about yourself" blurb can be removed?
I see the current issue being that the platform apparently lacks the tooling to automatically filter account creation using obvious hate speech, and bad actors are abusing open registrations. Until we have automated solutions for that, manual review becomes more necessary. But most users likely find an application essay for account creation an unusual, if not impassible hurdle.
Can the process be tweaked so it's clear the application will be reviewed (hopefully in a timely manner), without having the user provide a justification?
@FediTips@social.growyourown.services
The usually very open ended single question. Like what do they specifically want to know?
@FediTips@social.growyourown.services the first time it was "what do I even put there?" In combination with "and then I get to wait an unspecified amount of time to use this...".
Both made me really nervous. But... After having it done once, it was easier on the other occasions. For all other accounts I usually just put in something along the lines "hi, I've been using the fediverse on $otherService and now want to try THIS service/instance.". Sometimes, I reference something specific like "hey, I got referred here by $user/Instance X is closing and I'm looking for a new home/..."
@FediTips@social.growyourown.services I can add something as an admin: people really suck at answering ยซwhy you want an account hereยป. Or even ยซwho are you and where you come fromยป. Introducing yourself, even briefly, requires much more cognitive load than some may expect
We have a policy, requiring at least five words in registration request (and this is stated in rules everyone has to scroll through and confirm). Everything less than 5 words is rejected automatically, so moderators don't have to think ยซhnmm, should I approve this account stating โinterestingโ in registration reason or not?ยป
And you would be surprised, how many registrations go straight to /dev/null because of that 
@FediTips@social.growyourown.services on peertube most instances ignore your request
@FediTips@social.growyourown.services the approval process made me feel my profile and use was surveilled. I know it would be, possibly just as much, with a no-approval server, but having to write a note for someone to read about my inner-most thoughts made me feel very vulnerable and exposed
@FediTips@social.growyourown.services
I don't like feeling like it's a gated community.
It gives me gross.
I completely understand kicking out spambots and bad actors, but I want to be able to look around and explore right away. Not wait and see if I get approved without any idea of how long it might take.
On the internet, even a day is too long and I'll go find something else.
There have been a number of platforms in the past where you couldn't join without an invite. No thanks. Exclusive clubs are not my jam.
@FediTips@social.growyourown.services I just think we shouldn't build walled gardens. I had a bad experience with other platforms in the past where you have to "apply" to join, and those in charge found an opportunity to gatekeep.
There are some notable exceptions, but for the most part I won't join an online community where I have to "apply". That's how I ended up on the default server.
@watchfulcitizen@goingdark.social
Thank you so much for taking time to write this, it's getting across well the experience someone would face if they've got no prior knowledge.
@project1enigma@chaos.social
This is the problem, the mods want to write a more specific question but the software won't let them. Mastodon has hardcoded the question to just be "Why do you want to sign up?" ๐ฆ
I'm trying to gather evidence to convince the software developers that the question needs to be customised by the admins ๐
@r@toad.social
Thanks for the feedback ๐
Would it help if the question about signing up made it clear that they aren't surveilling your profile?
Most of the time mods only ask purely because the act of asking puts off spammers and trolls from joining. It isn't introducing any kind of surveillance or inteded to do anything like that.
@windsorwindsor2@mastodon.social
This is the thing though, most of the time mods aren't actually trying to screen the kind of person who joins, they just want to put spammers off joining. (Spam attacks recently have all come from instant signup servers.)
If the question about why you want to join made this clear, would it help?
For example when I've joined a server and written "I am interesting in (topic of server)" that has been enough and I got approved quickly.
@FediTips@social.growyourown.services I have been trying to change my sign up message for the longest time. And it never has. And cant get anyone to comment on it. Why have it there if it wont change.
Now I'm pretty made to know I've been busting my chops on a wall not meant to move. Instead of thinking I was hitting a glitch. Ugh.
Thanks for mentioning this.
@FediTips@social.growyourown.services Maybe it would. And I get that there are crazy amounts of attacks of all kinds nowadays that admins are dealing with constantly.
I'm used to environments like Reddit where I have to assume mods usually have bad intentions. But that's not true of Mastodon. I guess I'm still not used to a social network where people are nice!
Even if I change my view on this though, I think there will always be legitimate users who simply won't apply to a restricted server.
@windsorwindsor2@mastodon.social
This is a really interesting perspective, thank you.
Is there any way that moderators could make it clear that they aren't a restricted server, apart from allowing instant signups?
@lucyruthe@mastodon.social Does this happen often? I've never yet run into a mastodon instance that I couldn't explore.
@FediTips@social.growyourown.services
@lucyruthe@mastodon.social
Thanks for the feedback ๐
This is why I'm asking, as most of the time the moderated signups are not meant to be about exclusivity or gated communities or similar. But they have no way to customise the question to make this clear ๐
Would it help if the question was customised to make clear that they aren't trying to be exclusive, that they're just wanting to put off spammers etc?
And if they gave a rough idea of how quickly approvals happened?
@FediTips@social.growyourown.services
From the luddite normie perspective.
I feel like people are more discouraged by extra hoops than spammers.
Sure, spammers will take the path of least resistance, but why profile everyone when the bad actors are going to show you who they are anyway?
I feel like it's behavior that needs to be monitored. Not access.
@FediTips@social.growyourown.services no problem. I would love to have a middle ground. Having a approval process where the user still gets to interact with the fediverse and still allows admins to manually approve would solve both problems
@FediTips@social.growyourown.services speaking exclusively for myself, I think that would have helped. I put quite a lot of effort into sounding like I was both normal and interesting, to a hypothetical unknown viewer. being told that as long as I sounded vaguely human then I would pass the test may well have alleviated that pressure
thx for your response!
@Scofisticated@socel.net
I was only meaning the question "Why do you want to sign up?" which is AFAIK hardcoded.
Is the custom message not working either? ๐ฎ
That should be working, it's a major bug/glitch if not.
@FediTips@social.growyourown.services
Being up front about community standards and what would give someone the boot would make a big difference. Then I could make an educated decision about whether that works for me.
But I'll be honest, just waiting to see if I'm approved by someone else already feels culturally loaded in an awkward way. Reminds me of lots of ways I've had a bad time.
@FediTips@social.growyourown.services I have been trying to change it for months off and on. To no avail.
I looked for an Issues on github. I didnt see it a while ago, but I do now. I will try there. Maybe even ask MastoHost if it is a server-side problem.
@Scofisticated@socel.net
I think the message in that screenshot is only if your server is closed to new signups?
It won't appear if your server is open to signups.
@wil@beige.party
Could you explore it before you created an account? If so, that should be a landing page for us new guys.
I felt like I had to sign up somewhere before I knew how anything worked.
Not sure what you mean about "often." You only sign up at the beginning.
@FediTips@social.growyourown.services
@lucyruthe@mastodon.social
The reason there's such a controversy and discussion about instant signups is beacuse the spammers and trolls aren't just causing problems on their own server.
For example a few days ago there were trolls signing up with extremely racist usernames. They couldn't do this on servers that have moderated signups because the mods would see it, but they were able to do this on servers with instant signups.
@FediTips@social.growyourown.services
All that said, I have absolutely no problem doing some version of the "I am not a robot" routine.
@lucyruthe@mastodon.social
It should be showing you the rules on the website, for example here are the rules on my server: https://social.growyourown.services/about
You don't need to be a member to see the rules on other servers ๐
@FediTips@social.growyourown.services ooooohhhhhhhh. I was here thinking "sign-ups" meant open sign ups. Thaaaat makes sense. Ok.
Thank you so much for this insight.
-
And yes, as an admin, I totally want to customize my outgoing message to applicants. That would help me start a conversation with them. Make an outgoing that fits the instance's needs. And lets the applicant know why this is being asked, and what we are looking for.
Despitately, I want all this.
@FediTips@social.growyourown.services
I get why that is a real issue.
It still feels like punishing the whole class because that one kid is an epic dick.
@FediTips@social.growyourown.services ooooohhhhhhhh. I was here thinking "sign-ups" meant open sign ups. Thaaaat makes sense. Ok.
Thank you so much for this insight.
-
And yes, as an admin, I totally want to customize my outgoing message to applicants. That would help me start a conversation with them. Make an outgoing that fits the instance's needs. And lets the applicant know why this is being asked, and what we are looking for.
Despitately, I want all this.
@FediTips@social.growyourown.services
I get why that is a real issue.
It still feels like punishing the whole class because that one kid is an epic dick.
@Scofisticated@socel.net
Yeah, "sign-ups" on that particular setting means either instant or moderated signups.
The idea of the message is so you can explain you're not taking new members. Many servers also use this to suggest other servers where people could sign up instead ๐
@Scofisticated@socel.net
Yeah, "sign-ups" on that particular setting means either instant or moderated signups.
The idea of the message is so you can explain you're not taking new members. Many servers also use this to suggest other servers where people could sign up instead ๐
Fedi.Tips
