The continued growth of mastodon.social is putting the #Fediverse in danger (here's why: https://fedi.tips/its-a-really-bad-idea-to-join-a-big-server/).
The quickest, easiest and most effective way to solve this would be if the official apps & website stopped promoting mastodon.social, and instead promoted a rotating selection from a pool of reliable servers with solid track records.
If you're comfortable using Github, please give thumbs up to all these:
- https://github.com/mastodon/mastodon-android/issues/568
- https://github.com/mastodon/mastodon-ios/issues/1023
- https://github.com/mastodon/joinmastodon/issues/1052
@FediTips@social.growyourown.services I feel like when people ask for randomly assigned servers, there's a strange forgetfulness about which specific problem the default server was meant to solve.
Among people who signed up in 2022, the biggest reason (by far!) why people involuntarily left – that is, wanted to keep using Mastodon but failed to – was that they changed phones or browsers or just wanted to sign in on another device, and couldn't because they didn't know what server they were on.
@julian@fietkau.social @FediTips@social.growyourown.services
Is the sign-up email for a single software such as Mastodon predictable/regular enough that 80% of those cases could be solved by advising people to search for some text in their email?
Like if the default sign-up email contained "Mastodon" and when server admins customized it, there would naturally be a low chance they'd edit it radically enough to remove that word.
Or similarly, if a convention was established to include the word "fediverse", would that help?
/shrug/
@julian@fietkau.social @FediTips@social.growyourown.services People somehow manage to remember which email server they registered on, this isn't any harder
@FediTips@social.growyourown.services We can't be telling people “don't worry too much about all that server stuff for now” and also “oh you don't know if your account was on mstdn.social or mas.to, then you're just outta luck sorry”.
We also know that asking fedi newcomers to pick their own server does not work. Your suggestion addresses this point.
My conclusion is that having a default server for all newbies (not invited by a friend) is the best practical approach. Somewhere people can get their bearings.
@noisytoot@berkeley.edu.pl @julian@fietkau.social
All they have to do is search all their email apps for the word "mastodon".
@julian@fietkau.social feels like a very simple way to make sure people can find out what server their account is on is to either send them an email or have a "forgot your server" entry that enables them to search fedi for their username.
If that is really a problem that is cited as an answer to the rotating server idea, I think it's a non-issue.
@FediTips@social.growyourown.services
@julian@fietkau.social @FediTips@social.growyourown.services much of this could be solved if the “default server” for sign ups rotated….
@julian@fietkau.social
1. There is nothing about mastodon.social that makes it more friendly for newbies. It is technically identical to signing up on any Mastodon server.
2. People learn how to do stuff. I have spent most of my free time for the past five years dealing with new people on here and they are not as brainless or incurious as you are making out.
3. Saying most people cannot remember the name of their server while also expecting most of them to move their account is contradictory.
@FediTips@social.growyourown.services And yes, I understand the cons.
IMHO the path forward is to improve the scope & simplicity of the account moving process, and then encouraging people on m.s to use it after some time. Not to abolish the default server.
I've been holding my tongue on this since @andypiper@macaw.social said Mastodon may reply to this with a blog post. But I hope we can acknowledge that a “rotating servers” suggestion is incomplete without an idea to (unobtrusively but reliably) teach people about their own server.
@silmathoron@floss.social
"is to either send them an email "
This is the thing, literally every person who signs up on Mastodon gets an email telling them the name of their server.
@FediTips@social.growyourown.services
1. Right. The point is that it is the same server for everyone. So people can do logins and password resets without knowing what server they were assigned.
2. I'm sorry, but this was widespread. I had multiple people in my circles who bounced off of Mastodon because they couldn't remember their server. I believe @evan@cosocial.ca verified this as well.
3. I would expect them to move after learning what servers mean and which ones could fit them. How long this takes will differ per person.
@julian@fietkau.social
When I posted warning about this in 2023 I had no end of people telling me "Oh you are worrying too much, mastodon.social is just for new people, they'll move on to other servers".
Back then mastodon.social was about 10-15% of active Fedi.
Now Mastodon.social is almost 30% of active Fedi.
Are we going to have the same conversation in another couple of years when mastodon.social is over 50% of the Fedi?
Why would anyone join Mastodon if it's mostly on one server? What is the point?
@FediTips@social.growyourown.services You're preaching to the choir here. I agree that this is a big problem, and would not object to the statement that Mastodon has been dragging their feet addressing it. That's beside the point of my argument.
@julian@fietkau.social @FediTips@social.growyourown.services @andypiper@macaw.social
One key might be to stop encouraging people to join barely-memorable servers with which they have no real-world affinity, and instead encourage people to launch their own servers for a group which they have a real connection to, like their employer, university, city, family, church, club, or similar.
I don't forget my work email address because I know where I work.
It's a lot harder but long-term retention will be better.
@julian@fietkau.social @FediTips@social.growyourown.services @andypiper@macaw.social Suppose we created a shortlist of servers. (Maybe something like 8 or 10?) We give each server a simple little icon. You know, like, "house" "bird" "cup" "mail". Each user then just remembers this little associated ID, acting basically as a shortname or a checksum for the full server name. Then they just remember "I'm johnsmith with the little bird icon".
Maybe we don't like the icons, we use something else. Some other piece of memorized data that's a hell of a lot easier to keep in your head then some domain name that looks just like all the other domain names. As servers come and go, we add new icons (or whatever thing we pick) to the list to represent new servers on the shortlist of possible servers.
Just an idea is all.
@julian@fietkau.social
You're basically suggesting killing the Fediverse for the sake of making it easier.
Do you know what percentage will "bounce" if it no longer has any advantages over much bigger alternatives?
What, exactly, is the point of a Fediverse that operates on one server? Where is the advantage over Bluesky or Twitter/X for that matter?
There would be nothing left of it, it would be just another centralised network owned by a single company that eventually enshittifies.
@julian@fietkau.social
It's not a big problem, it's an existential problem. There is no reason for the Fediverse to exist if most of it is on one server.
When I posted about this in 2023 on FediTips, mastodon.social's only response was to ban me from their trends.
When I posted about this in 2025 on my personal account, mastodon.social's only response was to ban that account from their trends as well.
This is not a sign of an organisation dragging its feet, it is burying its head or worse.
@riverpunk@defcon.social @julian@fietkau.social @andypiper@macaw.social
People learn stuff when they find it useful. My granny knew dozens of phone numbers off by heart because she used them regularly. How many people today know a single phone number off by heart?
If people get used to servers, they will remember them.
If you never ever expose people to servers, they will never even have a chance to learn.
@FediTips@social.growyourown.services I feel like this exchange is unfolding less constructively than I had hoped. Did I come in too combative? I was hoping for more “what do we do about this together” than “your thoughts are worthless”.
I sure would love if I had any quant research to point to about the forgotten server issue, but I don't know if anyone did any.
I remain convinced that there are more fruitful paths to shrink m.s than to rotate the default server. It could be worth doing anyway, I'm not sure.
@riverpunk@defcon.social @julian@fietkau.social @andypiper@macaw.social
People learn stuff when they find it useful. My granny knew dozens of phone numbers off by heart because she used them regularly. How many people today know a single phone number off by heart?
If people get used to servers, they will remember them.
If you never ever expose people to servers, they will never even have a chance to learn.
@FediTips@social.growyourown.services I feel like this exchange is unfolding less constructively than I had hoped. Did I come in too combative? I was hoping for more “what do we do about this together” than “your thoughts are worthless”.
I sure would love if I had any quant research to point to about the forgotten server issue, but I don't know if anyone did any.
I remain convinced that there are more fruitful paths to shrink m.s than to rotate the default server. It could be worth doing anyway, I'm not sure.
Fedi.Tips
Julian Fietkau
