@evdelen@mstdn.ca
The oilmen wanted to detonate a nuke bomb underground to 'melt' the bitumen so it could be sucked up. Probably not a wise idea. Look at the costs Ontario is spending on CANDU and it becomes cost ineffective, even before storing waste (currently it is being stockpiled). A better option is a geothermal electrical generation plant feeding the tarsands.
@NMBA@mstdn.ca Yeah, Project Oilsand was very naive.
Costs in Ontario for Pickering and Darlington were high because of the prototype, or product-leader, nature of those reactors.
For the building of an in-production reactor one has to look at Bruce, which was for a long-time the largest nuclear power facility in the world, and which was built on-, and slightly under-budget.
I don't know the economics of Geothermal in the context of bitumen processing. On the face of it it would seem that temperatures are high enough. And, it'd give drillers something to do!
@evdelen@mstdn.ca @NMBA@mstdn.ca
Nuclear reactors are not financially successful and risky to the environment
. Lengthy article but .... https://shunculture.com/article/is-nuclear-power-banned-in-australia
@evdelen@mstdn.ca @NMBA@mstdn.ca fossil fuels are non-competitive for power generation, and the timeline for their use as transportation fuel is shorter than many expect. Maybe 10y, outside of aircraft. Not dependent on carbon taxes or other penalties - it's just going to be eclipsed by EVs on straight consumer cost.
So anything with longer capital turnover has to be examined very carefully - is the tar product going to be marketable in 2040 at $30/bbl?
@johnefrancis@cosocial.ca @NMBA@mstdn.ca And that's where "Phrasing" is important!
Do we want to be an "Energy Superpower" or do we want to be a "Hydrocarbon Products Superpower"?
There is plenty of stuff we cannot make without hydrocarbons, and, unlike diamonds, there aren't giant rocks of the stuff orbiting our sun. We also cannot reproduce it in the lab! It's a purely organic molecule created with pressure and time.
The carbon fibre used to make aircraft, the glues with perfect properties, cleaners, solvents, reagents, the list goes on and on!
This stuff is precious! We definitely shouldn't be burning it!
@johnefrancis@cosocial.ca @NMBA@mstdn.ca And that's where "Phrasing" is important!
Do we want to be an "Energy Superpower" or do we want to be a "Hydrocarbon Products Superpower"?
There is plenty of stuff we cannot make without hydrocarbons, and, unlike diamonds, there aren't giant rocks of the stuff orbiting our sun. We also cannot reproduce it in the lab! It's a purely organic molecule created with pressure and time.
The carbon fibre used to make aircraft, the glues with perfect properties, cleaners, solvents, reagents, the list goes on and on!
This stuff is precious! We definitely shouldn't be burning it!
@evdelen@mstdn.ca @NMBA@mstdn.ca when the demand for burning it collapses to 1%, does Canada have a great resource and technology base for its remaining uses?
Eh...not really. Pretty limited refining & chemical industry, and our extraction costs are among the most expensive. I think it will take Saudi's 300y to exhaust their $8bbl oil fulfilling most petro-chemical demand. Nobody will be buying expensive plastics based on $70bbl tar.
@evdelen@mstdn.ca @NMBA@mstdn.ca when the demand for burning it collapses to 1%, does Canada have a great resource and technology base for its remaining uses?
Eh...not really. Pretty limited refining & chemical industry, and our extraction costs are among the most expensive. I think it will take Saudi's 300y to exhaust their $8bbl oil fulfilling most petro-chemical demand. Nobody will be buying expensive plastics based on $70bbl tar.
@johnefrancis@cosocial.ca @NMBA@mstdn.ca As I understand it Alberta's heavy oil is better for producing plastics because there is a higher proportion of longer chain hydrocarbons. So you'll have more options in terms of how you want to crack and refine it.
We need to leverage the advantages our products have!
@johnefrancis@cosocial.ca @NMBA@mstdn.ca As I understand it Alberta's heavy oil is better for producing plastics because there is a higher proportion of longer chain hydrocarbons. So you'll have more options in terms of how you want to crack and refine it.
We need to leverage the advantages our products have!
@evdelen@mstdn.ca @NMBA@mstdn.ca that could be an advantage, if it can make up for the high cost of extraction.
@evdelen@mstdn.ca @NMBA@mstdn.ca that could be an advantage, if it can make up for the high cost of extraction.
@johnefrancis@cosocial.ca @NMBA@mstdn.ca Part of the high cost of extraction is because we're currently burning 1/3 of our final product to make more of our product, hence the need to nuclear (or geothermal if it is practical).
@johnefrancis@cosocial.ca @NMBA@mstdn.ca Part of the high cost of extraction is because we're currently burning 1/3 of our final product to make more of our product, hence the need to nuclear (or geothermal if it is practical).
@evdelen@mstdn.ca @johnefrancis@cosocial.ca
Cogeneration was their solution a couple decades ago lol
@evdelen@mstdn.ca @NMBA@mstdn.ca in that case, they'll want the cheapest and least-capital-intensive form of energy generation - renewables. Solar and wind built to excess all over AB, producing electric heat to steam the tar. It's quick and doesn't need a decade to get it built, and it doesn't need to last 75y. Tar steaming doesn't even need reliability, levelling and storage like the main electrical system does. If the wind doesn't blow, the tar isn't going anywhere.
@johnefrancis@cosocial.ca @evdelen@mstdn.ca
Geothermal is continuous energy and would be less ecologically damaging than turbines and PV would required to produce the same electricity. Geothermal is already used around the world, just not in oil-age Canada.
@NMBA@mstdn.ca @johnefrancis@cosocial.ca There is also such a thing as geographic viability. I'm not familiar with whether there are any hot springs or other easily accessible geothermal sources in Alberta.
When I think Alberta, I don't typically think Volcano. Then again, Yellowstone is south-southeast of Alberta, so there might be geological activity which would make geothermal economical.
@NMBA@mstdn.ca @johnefrancis@cosocial.ca There is also such a thing as geographic viability. I'm not familiar with whether there are any hot springs or other easily accessible geothermal sources in Alberta.
When I think Alberta, I don't typically think Volcano. Then again, Yellowstone is south-southeast of Alberta, so there might be geological activity which would make geothermal economical.
@evdelen@mstdn.ca @johnefrancis@cosocial.ca
Canada has mapped out the easy access geothermal and AB has some areas along the rockies. NE BC & YK (peace river oilfield) also have shallow access, and south central BC. Horgan really screwed up with Site C instead of geothermal.
@evdelen@mstdn.ca @johnefrancis@cosocial.ca
Canada has mapped out the easy access geothermal and AB has some areas along the rockies. NE BC & YK (peace river oilfield) also have shallow access, and south central BC. Horgan really screwed up with Site C instead of geothermal.
@evdelen@mstdn.ca @johnefrancis@cosocial.ca
@evdelen@mstdn.ca @johnefrancis@cosocial.ca
@NMBA@mstdn.ca @evdelen@mstdn.ca hot water pipeline from the mountains to Ft. Mac! All the reserves it passes thri can tap off a bit easily treated water for their needs.
@NMBA@mstdn.ca @evdelen@mstdn.ca hot water pipeline from the mountains to Ft. Mac! All the reserves it passes thri can tap off a bit easily treated water for their needs.
@johnefrancis@cosocial.ca @evdelen@mstdn.ca
High capacity transmission to heaters to melt the tar, with side transmission to reserves would likely be cheaper and better. The water in geothermal is ideally recycled over and over (steam turns turbines, then condenses and returns to the system).
@NMBA@mstdn.ca @evdelen@mstdn.ca if only there was a pool of underemployed experts in drilling deep holes and building pipelines in that area.
@johnefrancis@cosocial.ca @evdelen@mstdn.ca
Exactly...
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Ev Delen
