And actually I'd go farther and say it might be better to focus on community-led alternatives to commercial social networks in general -- not just fedi. For people looking for a US-focused, Black-centric microblogging experience, Blacksky might well be the best option today (and as Northsky becomes more real, that's likely to be a good option for a North American-focused 2SLGBTQIA+-centric microblogging experience). For people looking for a Palestinian-friendly photo/video-sharing app, Upscrolled might be a good option even though it's not decentralized.
@julian@fietkau.social @FediTips@social.growyourown.services @UlrikeHahn@fediscience.org
@thenexusofprivacy@infosec.exchange
I feel that its worth pointing out in these conversations that nobody starts new servers anymore. Its hard (to measure kinda impossible now since fedidb removed the 'first seen' statistic, and server age does not show up in nodeinfo), but virtually no new servers have been started since 2024 that have gotten over 1k mau, I think it was like 4 total (this spring when the stat was still available)
@julian@fietkau.social @FediTips@social.growyourown.services @UlrikeHahn@fediscience.org
It's a great point. Fediverse Observer still h as this info and from a quick pass it seems like the only new Mastodon instances with > 1K MAU that have started in the last two years are qlub, a québécois social network, and the alt-right server noauthority.social (which isn't completely new, since it was a split from noagenda.social). There are also a handful of peertube, wordpress, nodebb, and snac (!) instances.
( https://fediverse.observer/list and sort by Active Users)
@laurenshof@indieweb.social @julian@fietkau.social @FediTips@social.growyourown.services @UlrikeHahn@fediscience.org
@laurenshof@indieweb.social @thenexusofprivacy@infosec.exchange @FediTips@social.growyourown.services @UlrikeHahn@fediscience.org Anecdotally, I have been in contact with a professional association that is cautiously interested in hosting a Mastodon server for (possibly) a few hundred MAU in Germany, but is very scared of the social media liability laws that have gone into effect lately, some of them on pretty short notice.
Talking to them is an interesting mix of “we don't have a mandate to take this kind of risk” and “if we can't figure this out, then who can?”
imo a core problem is that perceptually, an app is usually tied software (the mastodon app) instead of network (the fediverse app) or server (the indiewebsocial app)
@thenexusofprivacy@infosec.exchange @julian@fietkau.social @FediTips@social.growyourown.services @UlrikeHahn@fediscience.org
@julian@fietkau.social @laurenshof@indieweb.social @thenexusofprivacy@infosec.exchange @FediTips@social.growyourown.services this is the kind of situation this new Mastodon service is aimed at, no? https://joinmastodon.org/hosting
@UlrikeHahn@fediscience.org @julian@fietkau.social @laurenshof@indieweb.social @thenexusofprivacy@infosec.exchange
There are already many good independent managed hosting services for Masto and Fedi instances such as https://masto.host or https://fedihost.co or https://cloud68.co
It would be even more centralisation if Mastodon gGmbH was hosting other instances, they would become even more tempting for corporations to buy out.
Mo-Me is leaning into this dynamic. For #MediaLiberationDay, it was very useful to be able to point people to Mo-Me to get started (as oppose to "start by picking an instance" or "start on .social"). And I wouldn't call it a "paddling pool" since it's got pretty rich functionality and is fully federated, but it's definitely an example of what I think of as a "starter instance".
One of the challenges with the app focus though is it's likely to reinforce the default tendency on flagship instances. If I want to use Piefed-the-app, it's natural to sign up on piefed.social; even though they're putting a lot of work into helping people choose an instance when they sign up (and kudos to them for doing it!), why not just sign up on piefed.social? It's hard to answer that without talking about instances and why they matter!
@laurenshof@indieweb.social @julian@fietkau.social @FediTips@social.growyourown.services @UlrikeHahn@fediscience.org
@thenexusofprivacy@infosec.exchange
Yeah MoMe is a great example
I get your point on how app focus also increases flagship importance. But I think that also partially points to that we keep trying to see the platform software as neutral with all expressions of community coming from servers, and I’m increasingly starting to feel that’s a dead end
@julian@fietkau.social @FediTips@social.growyourown.services @UlrikeHahn@fediscience.org
@laurenshof@indieweb.social @thenexusofprivacy@infosec.exchange @julian@fietkau.social @FediTips@social.growyourown.services Laurens, can you say more about this?
@UlrikeHahn@fediscience.org @laurenshof@indieweb.social @thenexusofprivacy@infosec.exchange @julian@fietkau.social
Whatever you suggest, please say something that doesn't involve centralisation.
This isn't meant to be a thread about how to do onboarding, it's a thread about how to stop centralisation.
In this particular case it's a badly-conceived onboarding mechanism that is causing the problem, but the problem itself is the centralisation.
All discussion is pointless if the Fedi centralises, because it would no longer have a reason to exist.
The Nexus of Privacy
Laurens Hof
